Frank: Hm. Is it possible that some parents want to distance themselves from A-A ethnicity for some reason? I ask because I know a few biracial Americans who tell people that they are Puerto Ricans, when in fact they have no real ancestral connection to the island. This has always mystified me, since my understanding is that Puerto Ricans are also looked down on.
The Prince: I feel the reason is Frank, is because Puerto Rican is seen as an identity that is separate from basic standard African American. From what I have seen African Americans like the Puerto Rican and like the cultural flavor they bring, combined with the visible black ancestry. Saying that you are a Rican brings special attention to you from other African Americans.
You are exotic and not just a standard regular boring African American with a predictable culture and predictable lower status in American society. Puerto Rican is a Latino, and the average person who is mixed with and says they are anything that is not African American only, is seen as exotic by African Americans from what I have seen personally.
I feel also, that it has to do with these mixed people wanting to experience something culturally different from just African American culture -- which is semi boring to some mixed race biracials.
Posted: Mon 18 Aug 2008 17:48 Post subject: Identity
fwsweet wrote:
Richard Miller wrote:
And to an even greater extent, your surname I suppose?
Yes, that is true. Although as soon as I open my mouth they realize that there's something funny about the name. So they ask about my family and I say I am of the Riveros of Juana Diaz and that satisfies most. Everyone knows that there was a U.S. Army base near the town in War II and many local girls married U.S. soldiers. (They assume, incorrectly, that my father was American.)
Richard Miller wrote:
I think it's to appear more "exotic." I discussed something similar in another thread. I've seen far too many names like "Andre Brown," "Antionne Jenkins," "Paulette Washington," or "Monique Wiggins" to believe that the Creole culture is not getting hijacked.
Hm. Is it possible that some parents want to distance themselves from A-A ethnicity for some reason? I ask because I know a few biracial Americans who tell people that they are Puerto Ricans, when in fact they have no real ancestral connection to the island. This has always mystified me, since my understanding is that Puerto Ricans are also looked down on.
It's understandable. It gets rid of nosy strangers who want to know why they look "exotic." "Puerto Rican? Ah, that explains it." Most Americans, of course, don't know the first thing about the history of Puerto Rico, but they know that Latinos in general are expected to look "exotic" or darker than white but not "black." I think Puerto Ricans, overall, do have a higher status than blacks. They can take advantage of the "Latino escape hatch."
Joined: 26 May 2007 {Posts: 394 } Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posted: Mon 18 Aug 2008 18:09 Post subject:
fwsweet wrote:
Hm. Is it possible that some parents want to distance themselves from A-A ethnicity for some reason?
I seriously doubt it. I think it's AA wanting actuall to absorb Creole culture. Look in most Soul Food cookbooks, and you'll find recipes for gumbo and jambalaya - which is another example on top of the names.
If I understand it correctly, AA's during the Civil Rights era were successfully able to get Creoles to identify with them... this of course would have probably had the desired effect of taking anyway any distinguishment that they had from AA's.
fwsweet wrote:
I ask because I know a few biracial Americans who tell people that they are Puerto Ricans, when in fact they have no real ancestral connection to the island. This has always mystified me, since my understanding is that Puerto Ricans are also looked down on.
I can easily address this one. I spent most of my childhood in the projects of New London, Connecticut - which, at the time, had about the same proportion of AA's and Puerto Ricans as the projects in NY (today, it's almost all Puerto Rican - with most of the blacks living in the vast area just west of Bank Street).
Most of my friends there were Puerto Rican - in fact, the only AA's I hung with were my cousins in the same complex. I didn't actively seek out Puerto Ricans as my friends, they just seemed to be who I was able to attract. Funny thing is, I never tried to "pose" - but I was encouraged to by both my friends and their parents (to this day, I still have a few who do that). I must say that if other mulattoes had the same experience that I did, they may have buckled to that pressure.
What made it more easy to be around them, however, is that they don't seem to have certain issues among themselves (i.e., challenging eachother's "Boricuaness"). In all reality, I should have been the outcast in the group, but I wasn't. I was the outcast, however, among AA's. This could be another factor as well.
Throw in the fact that "Latino" (for better or worse), is the de facto multiracial label, and you have a group of people that's very attractive to non-Latino mulattoes.
Joined: 26 May 2007 {Posts: 394 } Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posted: Mon 18 Aug 2008 22:05 Post subject: Re: Identity
Powell wrote:
I think Puerto Ricans, overall, do have a higher status than blacks.
Where I spent most of my childhood, and returned to from 2000-2002, in New London, Connecticut, blacks have the higher status - and there are slightly more Puerto Ricans than blacks there.
I think that the only places where Puerto Ricans enjoy a higher a status is where there aren't enough of them to... be seen living in poverty or cause enough crime to get noticed.
Joined: 26 May 2007 {Posts: 394 } Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posted: Tue 19 Aug 2008 00:52 Post subject: Re: Identity
Powell wrote:
It's understandable. It gets rid of nosy strangers who want to know why they look "exotic."
For better or worse, posing as Puerto Rican (or any other Caribbean Latino ethnicity for that matter) is also attractive for mulattoes, because it's pretty much the only way to tell the world that you're multiracial, without subsequently getting one-dropped.
Joined: 26 May 2007 {Posts: 394 } Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posted: Fri 22 Aug 2008 03:09 Post subject: Re: Identity
Richard Miller wrote:
Powell wrote:
It's understandable. It gets rid of nosy strangers who want to know why they look "exotic."
For better or worse, posing as Puerto Rican (or any other Caribbean Latino ethnicity for that matter) is also attractive for mulattoes, because it's pretty much the only way to tell the world that you're multiracial, without subsequently getting one-dropped.
Surprisingly enough, I thought this would spark an interesting conversation, but it hasn't been touched for awhile.
I have also heard people when asked what makes people Creole they start talking about the foods these people who claim Creole eat. I am like food don’t make you Creole no more than eating Chinese fried rice and Chinese orange chicken makes a Mexican Chinese.
Even though it pains me greatly to admit it, I actually believe those African types in Louisiana being more Creole than the 20 something year old biracial types (normally from places like New York, New Jersey, and California) I see on the internet attempting to identity with Creole culture.
I don't think its unfair to assume that since since Whites in the state of Louisiana are averaging about 5% African admixture and the Blacks around 22% European admixture( without the benefit of large amounts of interracial marriage in the past 100 years )that its highly likely that most mixed raced people during the time of Reconstruction intermarried into pure black or pure white families leaving very African and very European looking so call Creole descendants behind. Being an outsider from NC looking in, it seems a bit strange why someone without any Creole, Louisiana, or even French blood would dare challenge someone else's family background especially based solely on the fact that the person is dark skinned.
Whenever I'm run across books on 'creoles', I'm normally see the same kinds of comments made by Whites directed at mixed raced people (and sometimes towards blacks) claiming the same
stolen culture stories. The Creoles where French Americans blah, blah Blah. Mulattoes were called Mulattoes and were not real creoles , they were even classed separate on the census from Whites blah blah blah. Whites who claim this heritage now have to refer to themselves as Cajuns and Arcadians because of this supposed culture thief!
Posted: Thu 09 Oct 2008 17:00 Post subject: Re: Identity
Richard Miller wrote:
Powell wrote:
It's understandable. It gets rid of nosy strangers who want to know why they look "exotic."
For better or worse, posing as Puerto Rican (or any other Caribbean Latino ethnicity for that matter) is also attractive for mulattoes, because it's pretty much the only way to tell the world that you're multiracial, without subsequently getting one-dropped.
True, but I've encountered some "mulattoes" (I assume here you mean black/white biracial people) who get a little uptight when people assume they are Puerto Rican, specifically if the person doing the assuming is Puerto Rican and expects them to speak Spanish.
Posted: Fri 10 Oct 2008 05:45 Post subject: Re: Identity
G-Man wrote:
Richard Miller wrote:
Powell wrote:
It's understandable. It gets rid of nosy strangers who want to know why they look "exotic."
For better or worse, posing as Puerto Rican (or any other Caribbean Latino ethnicity for that matter) is also attractive for mulattoes, because it's pretty much the only way to tell the world that you're multiracial, without subsequently getting one-dropped.
True, but I've encountered some "mulattoes" (I assume here you mean black/white biracial people) who get a little uptight when people assume they are Puerto Rican, specifically if the person doing the assuming is Puerto Rican and expects them to speak Spanish.
Yes, that's true. I wonder if it's because they don't have a really good answer to the question "What are you?" They know that the word "black" doesn't really describe them, but they have been rendered mute by the lack of a vocabulary to describe their combination of ancestry and ethnicity.
Posted: Mon 17 Nov 2008 16:07 Post subject: Re: Identity
Powell wrote:
G-Man wrote:
Richard Miller wrote:
Powell wrote:
It's understandable. It gets rid of nosy strangers who want to know why they look "exotic."
For better or worse, posing as Puerto Rican (or any other Caribbean Latino ethnicity for that matter) is also attractive for mulattoes, because it's pretty much the only way to tell the world that you're multiracial, without subsequently getting one-dropped.
True, but I've encountered some "mulattoes" (I assume here you mean black/white biracial people) who get a little uptight when people assume they are Puerto Rican, specifically if the person doing the assuming is Puerto Rican and expects them to speak Spanish.
Yes, that's true. I wonder if it's because they don't have a really good answer to the question "What are you?" They know that the word "black" doesn't really describe them, but they have been rendered mute by the lack of a vocabulary to describe their combination of ancestry and ethnicity.
That could be it for some people. Based on my own experience in New York City, many biracial people- especially if they identify as black-get offended when Caribbean Latinos see them as members of their group. Some respond this way due to being put off by the insistence that they MUST be Latino based on their looks and the usual request to know why they are abandoning their heritage by refusing to speak Spanish.
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